Value Investing Forum

valueinvestortoday said:

Apple has submitted a patent application for the creation of a technologogy very similar to E-Ink. I suspect we will see this feature in future iPad releases.

This?

Maybe one day I will finally own an Apple product.

Jae wrote:

anyways on the topic of kindle, AMZN isn't the cheapest company in the world, but do you think it is the next aapl?

I always end up with mixed opinions on whether or not AMZN is a quality company (which may be overpriced) or whether the company's business model is problematic (and therefore is definitely overpriced.) Selling products cheaply and then shipping them for free is quite costly. The 30 day return policy (which is great from the consumer end) is costly since AMZN effectively pays for the shipping twice on a product it made no money on. If a product gets lost in shipping, AMZN will replace it with priority shipping at no cost to the customer (again, great for the customer, not so much for AMZN.)

But does AMZN have any moat? I've heard arguments suggesting that they don't. I suspect that their customer service provides for some loyalty but many customers just use AMZN because they know they'll get a good price. The only thing that makes this work, as far as I can tell, would be the advantages of economies of scale.

I suspect Prime has potential but last I looked the offerings were pretty lacking. If they could develop an affordable streaming service, they could easily kick NFLX out of business (NFLX might be heading down that road anyway but I would imagine AMZN could push it along.)

You might be right about international "growth" prospects. Though I like the distinction Peter Lynch makes between "expansion" and "growth" (he's concerned with growth in earnings which may not necessarily occur with expansion.) Can AMZN expand profitably? And what return would they get from said expansion?

Attempting to value AMZN would probably be an interesting exercise. I probably won't spend much time on it because I doubt I'd end up in a position either way.

Post edited 6:30 pm – January 26, 2012 by valueinvestortoday

"And I frankly don't like the tone of your post."

The "tone" you say? Is that a C# or a Db? :)

valueinvestortoday said:

Books are not cheaper on any device compared to ordering them from amazon, for example, unless you exclusively purchase your books new and at retail prices. Most of my books, with the exception of very few, have all been purchased from amazon in "used-like new" condition for less than $5.00. Value Investing doesn't only apply to stocks. To my understanding, there isn't a kindle or nook book that can be purchased for under $5 and very few value investing books are even available. I use an iPad which has available to it both the kindle and nook software apps. So, essentially I have a kindle, a nook, an iPad, and direct connectivity to my home based windows computer all in one for much less that it would cost me if I were to purchase each a kindle, nook, and iPad. Value Investing works in all facets of life. I run spreadsheets and all windows based software using the splashtop app with no problems at all and at lightning speed. 

Your first sentence might be true (would probably depend upon the book) if you used a disjunction instead of conjunction. Most books that have kindle available are cheaper than the new amazon price.

But there's one feature that Kindle has that IPAD lacks and that's E-INK technology. I prefer for reading anything lengthy. I can read shorter things like blogs and forum posts on an LCD screen but I have trouble reading anything lengthy due to eye strain, etc. That's not the case with Kindle.

If the screen isn't an issue then I think using a tablet has advantages because you can even download a kindle app for many devices. I like the E-Ink.

I also primarily use the Kindle for non-books. Most of my reading consists of journal articles. I've been using it for reading financial statements without much difficulty either. And I paid a lot less for my Kindle than I would have for an IPAD.

Granted, your IPAD can do more (except for the screen which was a biggy for me) but I don't need a device that does all of that. I still have a functional netbook. If I ever decide to replace it I may very well get a tablet. But I don't need a reading device to do all of that. So my options are to either read stuff on LCD, print everything long I want to read off (costly) or use an e-reader with the E-Ink technology. Kindle works for me.

I do like the idea that "value investing" can be applied elsewhere. I suspect most of the folks that are attracted to value investing already apply it in how they make purchases. But the Kindle has something the IPAD doesn't and I paid far less for my Kindle to get something I wanted than to pay more for stuff I don't need (and a device that lacks something I want.)

And I frankly don't like the tone of your post. I did my research. I got a better value from my perspective but that's because it better fits my needs. If you're OK with your screen and you want all those extra features, then pay for them. I'll save my money.

So about two weeks ago Best Buy had a sale to get a free cover with the purchase of an e-reader and I decided to give it a go. So far I'm loving the thing. I've already read one book and one journal article (pdf) and already started a second book. I also started going through a financial statement on it so here are a few comments:

Pros:

1) Books are cheaper and easy to read on here. It really looks like ink and paper which is the only reason why I'd prefer this over a tablet or something similar. I can't stand reading lengthy items on computer screens (forums and short blogs aren't too bad but once we get into whole articles and such and I'd rather print them off. This is a simple compromise).

2) Notes and highlighting available for books. (It beats having to have a highlighter around all of the time which is how I used to be… and still am… it'll be a while before I break that habit.)

3) PDFs format quite nicely.

4) Battery life is excellent. It's been over a week since I've charged it and it's still about half life.

5) Onboard dictionary. If you go over a word you can access, with just a click, the dictionary entry for that word.

Cons:

1) While financial statements are readable, it doesn't entirely format correctly. And any images are eliminated. (I converted from html to Kindle's native format.) But for my purposes, it's sufficient.

2) No notes or highlighting available on PDFs. If I were doing research I'd either would have to print off the pdf or find some alternative workaround (such as converting the file to Kindle's native format…) This may have some resolution but I'm not sure yet.

Features I haven't played with much:

1) "Experimental" mp3 player. It has built in speakers and a headphone jack. I have no idea if it sounds decent and probably don't care to try. (The Kindle only has about 3 gigs of space and I'd prefer to reserve it for books and articles anyway.)

2) "Experimental" browser. I was able to purchase books on amazon's site so it's functional. Apart from that, it's not much better than a crappy phone browser.

3) Text to talk. I tried it out. You can choose between a male and female speaker. I suppose it's an interesting feature but not one I'd likely use too much. (I'd probably zone out if I weren't doing the reading myseslf.) Otherwise it seems functional. It only works for some books though. I don't think it works on pdfs.