Value Investing Forum

Discuss value investing stock ideas

You must be logged in to post
Search Forums:


 






Wildcard Usage:
*    matches any number of characters
%    matches exactly one character

Best Buy (BBY)

UserPost

1:39 pm
April 26, 2011


stormam

Member

posts 32

7

Agreed.  Though not on SVU, be careful.  Commodity prices hit grocers hard, as does bargain shopping.  SVU has a lot of debt and is cutting core pieces to try and save margin.  For example, the company is telling cashiers/baggers not to double-bag unless specifically asked.  Probably not a big deal, but a lot of people do care (especially when their groceries fall out).  A lot of small cuts like this to try and retain profitability.  Grocers are all about driving volume and the margin of error for this company is razor-thin due to its balance sheet.

I am also not terribly impressed with management.

8:23 am
April 23, 2011


GaryCRibe

New Member

posts 1

6

Curious why you think this company will grow at all, I tend to think that top line will at best stall and margins will compress.  Further, the primary driver of foot traffic:  music, video, gaming.  Is migrating away from them and they simply can't compete on price with other big box retail or Amazon.  I also struggle to figure out why CC's b/k was good for BBY really.  Sure there's one less direct competitor, but its an indication the business bad business model is bad.  You could take BBY out and substitute BKS and I wonder if we'd be thinking about this the same way.  Their plan now is, and should be, to shrink square footage as fast as they can, but would you ever assign more than an 8 multiple to that plan?  Should the company benefit from some type of product cycle refresh (whether that's 3d TV, or something else) it would be another opportunity to either A. get out or B. go short because the "value" in here is a mirage.  When I look at this, all I can see of value is BBY Mobile and Geeksquad.  Are they worth $12b?  As a point of reference on BBY mobile, RSH is worth about $1.7b. 

 

Disclosure:  Not short BBY, but bearish on BBY for some time as well as some other business models, I view as fundamentally on the losing end(namely companies that rely on distributing physical content to drive their businesses:  BBY, BKS, CSTR, etc.).  In retail, I think you can make a compelling case for TGT, an interesting name to do a deeper dive on might be RSH.  While not "retailing", I also like the de-levering situation at SVU.

I would consider going short BBY should the multiple expand near a market multipe. 

5:16 am
April 3, 2011


ASTA

New Member

posts 1

5

Hello Oldschoolvalue,

Regarding BBY. I currently own BBY from $28.70 a share.

What i can contribute here that have not beein discused is that Joel Greenblatt and Zeke Ashton owns this stock since last quater. This tells me that alest there is some kind of Magicformula characteristics which is a good thing. second RSH is all the new rage small cap investment. But i think over 5 years i rather own BBY then RSH as BBY for me is the superior Moat brand.

 

When i got to a mall in Florida there is no one in RSH stores atlest some in BBY. and insider ownership is larger in BBY then RSH.

But what do i know:D only time will tell if i am right.

 

Cheers,

 

ASTA 

2:45 pm
March 31, 2011


stormam

Member

posts 32

4

Post edited 2:47 pm – March 31, 2011 by stormam


If you were going to buy a retailer, I'd agree with you on BBY.  It has taken a beating, yet is most likely the most durable of the guys left.  There are a few problems I do want to highlight.

1) Consumer electronics is a very tough business with high barriers of entry. 

     I strongly disagree.  Wal-Mart, Target, K-Mart etc… have increased sales of electronics, TVs etc…  I like the in-store experience as well, BUT I also really like websites like pricegrabber etc… which let you go online and find the lowest price for the model you like.  Why is this disastrous for Best Buy?  Because of its lowest-price guarantee which means you go online, find the lowest price easily, then force them to accept that price => lower margins and revenue.  (lower margins is more important)

    Best Buy has offered a new deal to buyback older technology in exchange for newer products.  This is just another way of cutting prices to spur demand/take share.  Nice, but thinning margins.  Constant signs of price wars is not an indication of high barriers to entry. You have to really increase sales a lot to offset falling gross margins at a large big box retailer. 

2)  Best Buy's net sale comparison's were damaged enough to send Wall Street into panic regarding their

beloved electronics store.

    Exactly.  The nation-wide expansion is over.  Retail sales tend to lag GDP due to price compression and make up for this by growing store #s.  The US market is mostly saturated with BBY stores.  As such, I strongly disagree with your long-term 3% growth rate.  This seems unlikely.  If real GDP growth long-term is 3%, then you probably grow 2% before you consider competitive threats (and before you consider share gains, so probably some mix of the two).  Knock the growth to 2% on your DCF and if that price still works for you, then go ahead.

3)  the unveiling of Best Buy Mobile

   Good move, but not a high-value market.  Welcome to the heavily saturated price competitive market of mobile phones.  The company phases out some businesses and puts these in instead.  I like this move, but be careful.  New growth segments in a fixed-space store => offset of another lower-volume segment (hopefully CDs… why do these still exist??).  Hopefully the company ditched something that isn't selling well for mobile.  But the world changes, other products won't sell so well going forward either, and it will replace that fall-off with something new.  This usually is not meaningful long-term growth, it just means the growth offsets the losses.

 

Things I do like:

1)  Current free cash flow yield (FCF) is a healthy 12.1%.

  Compare this to treasuries at 4%…  BBY has been increasing working capital pretty meaningfull the last couple of years, but generating solid cash-flow despite this.  Capital spending looks a bit low, but anything +10% FCF yield is always good

2)  include the Geek Squad purchase in fiscal 2003

  This is interesting and value added. 

3)  The company has recently repurchased many of its shares, reducing the number of shares outstanding by 8%.

I'm actually mixed on this.  The company should be paying dividends.  It isn't a growth company anymore.  I am always leery of a high fixed cost business with difficult long-term revenue that focuses solely on buying back stock.  Management gets paid in options and based on its stock price.  NOT total return (which is what you get).  I'd rather see a 3-5% dividend yield here because it would be much harder to short this if they did that.  Meanwhile, the bears (shorters) see potential for falling margins => the earnings fall faster than share-count, making this cheap stock not so cheap.  Just be aware. 

 

The market hates this company right now, so you got that going for you.  This isn't my type of stock, since I think the multiple maybe expands 2-3x which gives you a decent return, but your max-upside then is 30-40% and downside may be 20-30% depending? 

2:26 pm
March 29, 2011


Jae Jun

Admin

posts 1464

3

I find it difficult to invest in retail businesses. The ones I do own are usually distressed which means that it is clearly cheap.

You've provided an excellent analysis on BBY but I just have to wonder whether it is the best opportunity for the cost?

Is there anything else that you would be willing to buy or is this a fist pounding conviction pick?

I just think there is always a better idea than retail. That said, I still own some retail myself and in the red for doing so.

7:06 pm
March 28, 2011


Discountvalue

Member

posts 18

2

Using a 1,100m FCF, a 9% growth rate and a 15% discount rate I get an Intrinsic Value of around $32..64 per share. 
I would want to use a 50% MOS on this stock. That is my take just on the numbers. I'm still learning though so you
can take this with a grain of salt. I wish you well with this stock. 

 

 

 

11:46 pm
March 27, 2011


danielsparks11

Pueblo, Colorado

Member

posts 3

1

Post edited 11:53 pm – March 27, 2011 by danielsparks11


When Circuit City tumbled from the scene several years ago,
Best Buy became Wall Street’s beloved, with many analysts recommending a “buy”
on the stock. How is it, then, that just several years later, Best Buy is
selling at its lowest price in two years? Essentially, the Street believes that
online retailers and a trend toward online shopping threaten Best Buy’s
competitive position. But is the threat as serious as the Street makes it seem?
Is the decline in price really a result of Wall Street’s concern for this
competition?

After looking over Best Buy's financial statements and
attempting to understand its story behind this price slide, it seems to revolve
around only several temporary issues: (1) decreased sales in TVs and notebook
computers and (2) managements decision to lower 2012 guidance. Neither of these
issues have anything to do with increased competition from online retail.

Let's take a closer look at these issues. As consumers'
appetites for flat screen TVs decreased this year, Best Buy's net sale
comparison's were damaged enough to send Wall Street into panic regarding their
beloved electronics store. In 2009, Best Buy had an incredible year as consumers
rushed to Best Buy to buy their flat screen TVs and new notebook computers. In
the end of 2010 to present, the trend for both flat screen TVs and notebook
computers decreased, both of which represented a large portion of Best Buy's
revenue. It is blatantly stated in the most recent quarterly report that this
years net sales "decrease was driven by a comparable store sales decline
of 5.5 percent, as it followed a very strong 7.4 percent comparable store sales
gain achieved in the previous year." In other words, it’s tough to make
this year look good when the last year was exceptional.

And as for the lowered guidance for 2012, this is not
surprising. Best Buy relied too heavily on the demand for flat screen TVs. Flat
screen TV sales allowed for rapid turnover of products with solid profit
margins. I praise Best Buy for lowering 2012 guidance when they knew full well
that it would encourage Wall Street to sell the stock, lowering the price.

So, the Street might claim that their reason for shunning
Best Buy is the threat from online retail, but the truth is that the reason for
Best Buy's sub-par performance is not primarily due to increased competition
from online retail, but, instead, due to the pairing of an exceptional year and
a mediocre year in which the exceptional year makes the mediocre year pale in
comparison.

Consumer electronics is a very tough business with high
barriers of entry. The strain on the industry to keep prices low and
continually meet consumer's ever-changing desires also puts a lot of pressure
on Best Buy. However, Best Buy is the established king of in-store consumer
electronics.

The fact is, Best Buy differentiates itself from online
retailing by allowing consumers to experience the technology before making a
purchase. Furthermore, it gives the buyers a hands-on shopping experience and
the convenience of having these products in their hands immediately after a
purchase. Best Buy has proven to master the art of this business model in the
past and I don't expect much to change in the future.

Furthermore, Best Buy has proven that it is capable to adapt
to rapid change, as highlighted by Star Tribune, "Best Buy may be too big
to reinvent itself, but the company has an uncanny knack for adjusting its
business model in response to or in anticipation of consumer needs. Two recent,
powerful examples include the Geek Squad purchase in fiscal 2003 and the
unveiling of Best Buy Mobile" (Wieffering, March 26, 2011).

Important Highlights:

  • Best Buy has an exceptional return on invested
    capital of 19%, higher than most of the industry.
  • Price is at a 2 year low.
  • The company has recently repurchased many of its
    shares, reducing the number of shares outstanding by 8%. To reduce the shares
    outstanding by 8%, Best Buy had to spend about $1.2 billion, paying about 36.62
    per share. Now, with shares selling at $29, and $1.3 billion left to spend on
    repurchasing shares, Best Buy will no doubt take advantage of the low stock
    price and go on a shopping spree, buying itself. With that much to spend and
    with the stock trading at its current price, shares outstanding will most likely
    be reduced by at least another 11%!
  • My estimated margin of safety is 46.9%
  • Current free cash flow yield (FCF) is a healthy
    12.1%.
  • Its average FCF growth rate per year over the
    past 5 years is 5.94%. So I consider my estimations for future FCF growth in
    the DCF analysis to be conservative.

It is my opinion that Best Buy has a wide economic moat. I
am bound to find people who disagree, I am sure. Especially since 2/3 of Wall
Street analysts hold a “neutral” or a “hold” on the stock, mostly due their
belief in its lack of an economic moat. But I am confident in its moat.

And if Best Buy does have a wide economic moat, then this
business is selling at a great bargain.

Attached is my DCF analysis based on the F Wall Street
method. As you can see, I include shareholder’s equity in the fair value
valuation as Joe Ponzio does.

Best Buy DCF



About the Stock Valuation Software forum

Forum Timezone: America/Los_Angeles

Most Users Ever Online: 170

Currently Online: Jae Jun
15 Guests

Currently Browsing this Topic:
1 Guest

Forum Stats:

Groups: 4
Forums: 40
Topics: 766
Posts: 4121

Membership:

There are 958 Members
There have been 9 Guests

There is 1 Admin
There are 3 Moderators

Top Posters:

somrh – 336
Graeme – 183
nell – 100
zehua – 96
valueinvestortoday – 80
krackerjack121 – 69

Recent New Members: autocats, silverfox, jman, matias091, foundos, pberardi

Administrators: Jae Jun (1464 Posts)

Moderators: Jae Jun (1464 Posts), VANYA (1 Post), djsun (0 Posts)