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Risk

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1:41 pm
July 23, 2011


FIFOkid

Member

posts 58

6

Post edited 6:56 am – July 23, 2011 by FIFOkid


somrh said:

FIFOkid, how do you attempt to measure the risk?


I am sorry I didn't see the question I believe in systematic risk company related and use more of a quantitative theory for market risk (risk on/off) based upon both technical, historical and fundamental indicators.  As of early July I felt more comfortable going long riskier positions again as my indicator turned bullish however I will admit this overhanging debt crisis has left less aggressive than I normally would be on the equity side.
 

1:51 am
January 15, 2011


somrh

Member

posts 336

5

FIFOkid, how do you attempt to measure the risk?

1:58 am
January 9, 2011


somrh

Member

posts 336

4

Jae, I had just noticed the post after I posted this thread and then edited my post to include your link. I didn't have a chance to read it until now.

There's a few points of contention I have with the article. I may give some more thought to it and post to the article. The issue is related to risk/reward.

You can perform an experiment where you give people two alternatives:

Alternative 1: You get $100.

Alternative 2: We flip a coin. If it lands heads you get $200 and if it lands tales you get $0.

Most people tend to be risk adverse so they choose Alternative 1. The expected values are the same (assuming the coin is "fair"). Then we can modify Alternative 2 to change its expected value so that it is larger and see how much of a difference it has to get a person to choose Alternative 2 over Alternative 1.

Or consdier the following game:

If you don't play, you don't win or lose anything. If you do play there are two possible outcomes:

Outcome 1 – There is a 99% chance you will have to pay $100,000.

Outcome 2 – There is a 1% chance you will win $100,000,000.

The expected value is .99*-$100k + .01* $100m = $901,000.

I would conjecture that many people will not play this game if you could only play it once. At the very lest, I wouldn't. But if I could play it a large number of times, I would play it.

If you perform the event once, your odds of losing are 99%. If you perform the event 100 times, your odds of losing are only 36.6%.

There's perhaps a relationship here between risk and the benefits of diversification and the relationship between risk and long-term investing (why the standard finance view recommends high risk for younger individuals for their retirement and lower risk for those nearing retirement.)

Jae asked, "From a different angle, how can you measure something that is uncertain?"

Statistical analysis would be the short answer. The long answer is that it's going to depend upon what you're attempting to measure. Obviously you need sample information. From that you can calculate things like sample mean and sample standard deviation. Typically results are then assumed to be normally distributed and then you infer what the distribution looks like. It's certainly not a perfect way to go about things but it's better than going in blindly.

Casinos are based largely on this. They don't know what's going to happen on any individual occurrence (someone could win the jackpot). What they do know is what the distribution is for the games they have and they know the expected values. And provided that many games are played over and over again, the results will converge to their expectations.

7:15 pm
January 8, 2011


FIFOkid

Member

posts 58

3

There is market risk and company specific risk. My definition of risk for a microcap company is staying power. How long can the company operate without diluting its share base.

 

Then I look for catalysts.

 

Like new products or a strong upward bias  in the price of the product the company sells.

6:02 pm
January 8, 2011


Jae Jun

Admin

posts 1464

2

Atimely post. Dont know whether you read the latest guest article on risk.

 

But I'm sure we all agree that risk is the potential of permanent capital loss.

The question about how we measure estimate it is really up in the air and something that I dont think can ever be measured.

To put it frankly, it is contradictory.

As an example, say you are flipping a coin. You have a 50-50 chance. The risk is that 50% you will lose. BUT there is also the 100% certainty that you will not lose if you just dont take the bet.

Same with stocks, if you apply a risk factor of say 30%, you are really saying, I can guarantee 100% I won't lose if I do not partake.

However, I understand that we don't live in a vacuum so my argument may not be as strong.

 

From a different angle, how can you measure something that is uncertain?

This is the typical garbage in garbage out.

6:50 am
January 7, 2011


somrh

Member

posts 336

1

Post edited 5:54 am – January 7, 2011 by somrh


Basically, I'm hoping we can have a discussion on the following questions:

1) What is risk?

2) How do we measure/estimate risk?

My own hypothesis suggests that risk is a very complex concept that we've headed under one name – "risk" – and it would be appropriate to distinguish different kinds of risk. Further, I conjecture that one kind of risk need not be well correlated with other kinds of risk.

The idea would be that if they are well correlated, then only one concept or risk would really need to be looked at and all of the others more or less reduce or are equivalent to that one. On the other hand, if they are not well correlated, then assets may have different risk dynamics and looking at all of those factors would be important for consideration.

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